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the timing is interesting, obviously, just as we're learning that fiscal cliff negotiations are now a party of two, the president and the speaker. the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is for families like this one. >> joining me now is barry, msnbc political contributor and editor for grio. hello, guys. >> perry, i'm wondering if these new unemployment numbers add to the president's leverage? >> i think they do. the big thing is the election. but the jobs numbers suggest that the economy is doing well and it cuts
the timing is interesting, obviously, just as we're learning that fiscal cliff negotiations are now a party of two, the president and the speaker. the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday...
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we go over the fiscal cliff rates reset under bill clinton and you're negotiating a tax cut not a tax increase. other thing the way weight of public opinion since that level has moved strongly against republicans. look who the public says they're going to blame if we go over the cliff, it's republicans because they see them as having forced the issue last time around, been willing to do this this time around. one reason boehner is grumbly and nervous because he doesn't have any leverage. >> i want to point this out. this is interesting in terms of the smoke and mirrors how this will play out for the republicans. in the "wall street journal" they write obama's flexible on highest tax rates. white house's flexibility, described by bowls, confirmed by the administration officials, could envision tax rates -- tax rate increase from the current level but was less than clinton era levels. if the republicans can say, we cut taxes from where they were under clinton it gives them cover though rates may go up. a weird, if there is an act of kabuki theater that would be it, right. >> i see a par
we go over the fiscal cliff rates reset under bill clinton and you're negotiating a tax cut not a tax increase. other thing the way weight of public opinion since that level has moved strongly against republicans. look who the public says they're going to blame if we go over the cliff, it's republicans because they see them as having forced the issue last time around, been willing to do this this time around. one reason boehner is grumbly and nervous because he doesn't have any leverage....
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going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do willingly, make dramatic changes in taxes and spending. if those changes happen automatically,
going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013....
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cliff budget negotiations that as of this hour are still focused entirely on income tax rates. there is much more that congress has to solve than income tax rates including the amt, medicare spending, medicaid, and possibly social security. joining me to talk about the things that congress is not yet talking about but will soon be talking about, joeyç reed and chris hayes. chris, the amt has a deadline to it that is sharper than anything else in here, because these 2012 tax returns going to have to be calculated with either this new version of the amt or the fixed version, and that is the difference between it affects -- it adds tens of millions of people getting bitten by this thing. i know that the insiders are more worried about that actually getting fixed than the cliff at this point. >> yeah. when i started covering capitol hill in washington, there were two things that people talked about, which was the amt patch and the dock fix. everyone is like where are we on the amt fix. they adjust the payments and do this thing with the amt. we were asking early on, is there a wa
cliff budget negotiations that as of this hour are still focused entirely on income tax rates. there is much more that congress has to solve than income tax rates including the amt, medicare spending, medicaid, and possibly social security. joining me to talk about the things that congress is not yet talking about but will soon be talking about, joeyç reed and chris hayes. chris, the amt has a deadline to it that is sharper than anything else in here, because these 2012 tax returns going to...
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. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all those tax cuts from the republicans are swept away. but it's too early. it's only december 6. we've
. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last...
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for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile the white house will send tim geithner to the white house for meetings with republican and democratic conditioningal leaders. yesterday the president met with big ceo's from goldman sachs, at&t, cater pillar, many who said after the meeting they've merged hoping a deal could be struck to avoid the fiscal cliff. in another meeting president obama said he believes the framework for a deal could be in place before christmas. >> i'll go anywhere and i'll do whatever it takes to get this done. it's too important for washington to screw this up. now is the time for u
for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile...
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the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and millionaires. it's a sad state of affairs. >> one thing that we've seen in the days leading up, at least through this week, that there has been optimism from both sides expressed by speaker boehner, also by the president, and also republican tom cole, congre congressman, seem to be on board. now we have conservatives like charles krauthammer putting out their pieces saying let's go over the fiscal cliff, let the president do this. then john cornyn, republican from texas, saying apparently the president wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. this is serious business, demanding higher taxes, more stimulus
the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and...
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let me play it. >> if there is no agreement, then the fiscal cliff has to be dealt with. i didn't see it if they decent this, we do that. i saw it as a statement of fact. it's not a threat. it's a prediction. if there's no agreement, we go over the cliff. let's hope we can have an agreement. >> what do you make of the way she put it? it's not a threat. she said, listen, these are the facts. >> nice little economy you have there. nice little economy you have there. it would be a shame it if anything happened to it. that's not a threat. look, we have to start looking at what happens if we do, in fact, go over the so-called cliff, and what happens is, you know, one thing is we take a huge bite out of the deficit. we do it in a crude may, and there would be immediate attempts to fix it and fine-tune it and take some back. some would probably get through. if you actually want to look at it from a policy standpoint, it may not be the worst possible option to just go over the cliff and then put back in the tax cuts and the spending increases or renewals that you'd like to put ba
let me play it. >> if there is no agreement, then the fiscal cliff has to be dealt with. i didn't see it if they decent this, we do that. i saw it as a statement of fact. it's not a threat. it's a prediction. if there's no agreement, we go over the cliff. let's hope we can have an agreement. >> what do you make of the way she put it? it's not a threat. she said, listen, these are the facts. >> nice little economy you have there. nice little economy you have there. it would be...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay captain ahab. >> thank you, michael and steven. . i'm where michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. look this isn't my first christmas. these deals all seem great at
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay captain ahab. >> thank you, michael and steven. . i'm where michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until...
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cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to block the deal because they want to extend tax cuts. we can't afford for the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> reporter: john boehner dug in. no rate rises on anyone. >> the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> reporter: the opening bid brought the gop leaders by geithner is a nonstarter. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, you can't be serious. >> reporter: included in the offer, $1.6 trillion in new revenue, twice what was on the table in last year's failed grand bargain, and $
cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ thunder crashes] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. >>> back to "hardball." in the "sideshow," a protest takes a turn for the better. it started out when ohio senator rob portman took to a stage at a fix the debt conference in washington today. a group of protesters pre-empted
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's wh
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation...
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to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> let's go to the other side. republican house speaker john boehner also digging in, admitting that talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also describing the moment when geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him, i said, "you can't be serious." i've just never seen anything like it. you know, we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. and three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense. right now i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> let's go to the other side. republican house speaker john boehner also digging in, admitting that talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also describing the moment when geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was...
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and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if you look at the fish bowl the republicans are swimming in right now, there are a lot of sharks. you've got mitch mcconnell, who's running for re-election. you've got eric cantor, looking over speaker boehner's shoulder. he'd love to have that job. i mean, how can you get an honest broker out of the republican camp, when all of this stuff is swimming around? you've got the hard right-wing tea partyers out there. you've got mcconnell looking at possibly being in a real tough re-election. and as i said, you know, boehner, is he protecting his backsid
and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if...
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you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said you can't be serious. i have just never seen anything like it. >> yes, indeed, it seems that republicans are not quite sure what to make of the president taking a harder line across the bargaining table. >> you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. the president's plan is just, quite frankly, a joke. >> i'm not sure about that, senator graham, but there will be plenty of time for jok
you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was...
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and 53% say they trust president obama to avoid the fiscal cliff. compared to just 36% who trust republicans in congress. also today speaker boehner said he wouldn't rule out an agreement to raise taxes as part of a fiscal cliff deal. but he also said there's no progress. this is what winning looks like. joining me now, e.j. dionne and thank you both for your time. senator solis, the jobless rate is at a four-year low. that's quite an achievement. >> yes, reverend re. but we still need to do more. in sectors like retail and health care and tourism and hospitality. we need to do more because people are still suffering. we've got to put jobs back in infrastructure and construction and put our teachers. that's why the president is working so hard so we don't go off the fiscal cliff so we keep the most vulnerable people out of harm's way. to pay $2,200. we've got to talk about fairness here and i'm very excited that the public is listening to the message that the president has made very, very clear. >> 146,000 new private sector jobs last month but one
and 53% say they trust president obama to avoid the fiscal cliff. compared to just 36% who trust republicans in congress. also today speaker boehner said he wouldn't rule out an agreement to raise taxes as part of a fiscal cliff deal. but he also said there's no progress. this is what winning looks like. joining me now, e.j. dionne and thank you both for your time. senator solis, the jobless rate is at a four-year low. that's quite an achievement. >> yes, reverend re. but we still need to...
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>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who diagnosed you with a severe ill sxns won't sign the precipitation to give you the medicine. they emphasize the joblessness problem, and they don't want to give you unemployment insurance and tell that to someone laid off sleeping in their car. >> with these jobs numbers, had hurricane sandy not struck how better would this report have been? >> a lot of this was construction job weakness. clearly, that will rebound. one of the unfortunate upsides of natural disaster is that you do, whether the states or federal governments do it or insurance companies, you have a lot of infrastructure spending as people rebuild from t
>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who...
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. >>> up next the senate's top republican latches out loud as the white house averts the fiscal cliff. millions of americans are not finding this partisan fighting so funny. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. buy now. save later. we create easy-to-use, powerful trading tools for all. look at these streaming charts! they're totally customizable and they let you visualize what might happen next. that's genius! we knew you needed a platform that could really help you elevate your trading. so we built it. chances of making this? it's a lot easier to find out if a trade is potentially profitable. just use our trade & probability calculator and there it i
. >>> up next the senate's top republican latches out loud as the white house averts the fiscal cliff. millions of americans are not finding this partisan fighting so funny. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference....
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rate at nearly 52%. >>> forbes is out with the 2012 most powerful people list. president obama held on to the top spot for a second year. the pope climbed two notches from last year. he is in fifth place. facebook's ceo mark zuckerburg went to number 25. former president clinton held on to number 50. and tonight be sure to watch brian williams sit down with tim cook. by the way, he's number 35 on the forbes list. >> finally, no, this is no joke. pizza hut in canada sent more than 100 bottles of pizza cented perfume to facebook fans. the fragrance boasts freshly baked hand tossed dough. >>> some optimistic news in the fight against breast cancer. women who took the common estrogen blocking drug tamoxofin cut the chance of getting breast cancer in half. >>> coming up, corey booker lives on food stamps. the nfl steps in with a million dollars for jovan belcher's orphan daughter and high resolution images of your planet earth from space. the new technology uses filtering techniques that allows the images such as city lights, gas flares, auroras, wildfires and reflec
rate at nearly 52%. >>> forbes is out with the 2012 most powerful people list. president obama held on to the top spot for a second year. the pope climbed two notches from last year. he is in fifth place. facebook's ceo mark zuckerburg went to number 25. former president clinton held on to number 50. and tonight be sure to watch brian williams sit down with tim cook. by the way, he's number 35 on the forbes list. >> finally, no, this is no joke. pizza hut in canada sent more than...
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. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again we see there's no agreement that done involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. remember it's only 2%. >> former senator alan simpson, co-founder of the fix the debt campaign, choice words and analysis for would-be cliff jumpers. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying, i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff, wealthy it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. this is big-time stuff. >> surprising exactly no one, senator mitch mcconnell took to the senate floor yesterday to blast the administration strategy as a campaign maneuver. >> incredibly, many top democrats, including the president, seem perfectly happy, perfectly happy, to go off the cliff. >> but in a new quinnipiac poll out today, the american public gives the democrats the benefit of the
. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again we see there's no agreement that done involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. remember it's only 2%. >> former senator alan simpson, co-founder of the fix the debt campaign, choice words and analysis for would-be cliff jumpers. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying, i think it will be...
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is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for negotiations. >> get him out and get some women -- the congresswoman we had on the other day, the republican congresswoman, mcmorris rogers. sorry about that, really tired, she's fantastic. get her at the table more. get more women to the table because that's just not the way to negotiate. i agree with the administration's position on this. >> the treasury secretary yesterday goes oh, yeah. we can go over the fiscal cliff. >> don't you think that's going to make everybody feel really good, the markets. >> the republicans are doing the same thing. somebody has to be better. >> but the republicans don'
is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for...
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to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, "you can't be serious." i've just never seen anything like it. you know, we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. and three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense. right now i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire time. >> wha
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i...
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quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a week. white house press secretary jay carney i find very interesting refused to characterize the conversation. let's bring in congressman chris van hollen of maryland tonight. good to have you with us. >> always good to when with you. >> you bet. are democrats united on this rate issue? we keep hearing it. now that boehner is starting to move a little bit and say that the money is going to come from the wealthy, yet he hasn't identified these reductions, where do democrats stand on rates? is that the bottom line? the rates have to go up? >> the rates have to go up, ed. it's a matter of simple math, as the president h
quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a...
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cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he had a faction that was lining up against him wholeheartedly. even after yesterday we heard all the stuff of fallout from the conservative right against his position, that conference this morning was pretty supportive of speaker boehner and seem to be -- say something we say way too often here in washington, d.c., doubling down on the speaker's approach, at least here in early december. >> everyone seems to be doubling down, luke. i mean the idea that now nobodies's moving at all. i thought it was interesting that boehner is adopting the rhetoric kind of fairness saying we're going to -- won't say t
cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he...
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the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the char itible deduction. >> an obsession to raise taxes not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. >> and meantime, "the new york times" jonathan wiseman reports behind the scene republican leaders are considering the president's plan to extend middle class tax cuts now an address the debt and spending in the new year. here's republican senator tom coburn on "morning joe." >> actually, i would rather see the rates go up than the other way and greater chance to broaden the base in the future. >> do something, a down payment
the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the...
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he said "republicans are seriously considering a doomsday plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. it would be quite simple. house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling. ." two republican officials tell me this is becoming the most likely scenario. "the new york times" added more detail including this amazing quote from rep michael c. burgess of texas. "there's always better ground, but we have to get there." in this case the better ground is exchanging the threat of a congressionally induced recession for the threat of a congressionally induced global financial crisis combined with recession. that, that is your better ground? that's a big plan? it's not -- it's not better ground for the economy. and, frankly, i find it difficult to see how it's better politi
he said "republicans are seriously considering a doomsday plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. it would be quite simple. house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt...
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cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in additional revenue to the government, you could pay down all of obama's
cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put...
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to go over this fiscal cliff, because republicans won't raise taxes, tax rates on the wealthiest 2% of americans, would subject the average american to big tax increase and enormous damage from the other cuts that would happen. and there's just no reason why the country has to go through that. and we have a chance to do something much better. not just for the long-term health of the american economy, but for the immediate challenge which is getting stronger growth and more job creation. >> but you heard the president say today if there's no deal, are you going to blame the republicans for ruining christmas? >> the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to block a deal because they want to extend tax cuts. we can't afford for the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> the president said on election night, you voted for politics, not action as usual. you're saying what we can expect from republicans. what can we expect from the president to break that cycle? >> a willingness to sit down and explore what the best way to get t
to go over this fiscal cliff, because republicans won't raise taxes, tax rates on the wealthiest 2% of americans, would subject the average american to big tax increase and enormous damage from the other cuts that would happen. and there's just no reason why the country has to go through that. and we have a chance to do something much better. not just for the long-term health of the american economy, but for the immediate challenge which is getting stronger growth and more job creation....
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that's your idea -- >> mike -- >> away from a fiscal cliff? >> congresswoman, i am a financial illiterate, can you explain to me how you have all encompassing tax reform without taking a look at tax rates? >> well, we have. we believe that we need tax reform. we'd like to look at tax rates, we'd like to look at the loopholes, the tax credits. we want a simpler, less costly tax code for america. that's important for middle class families, important for our economy. that is what's going to help get this economy growing again. but we also -- it also republicans believe it has to include the spending. and the way congress has operated in the past, you know, yeah, we'll increase revenue, but then there's never the protections, never the tough decisions to actually cut the spending, reduce the debt, and that has to be a part of this one. >> fair enough. arianna? >> congresswoman, in your thanksgiving message, twice you emphasize the need for jobs, the need for growth, and then you mentioned the deficit. what do you think we should be doing right now
that's your idea -- >> mike -- >> away from a fiscal cliff? >> congresswoman, i am a financial illiterate, can you explain to me how you have all encompassing tax reform without taking a look at tax rates? >> well, we have. we believe that we need tax reform. we'd like to look at tax rates, we'd like to look at the loopholes, the tax credits. we want a simpler, less costly tax code for america. that's important for middle class families, important for our economy. that...
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cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's allies at this point. where is governor jan brewer. the mystery about the out of state business trip and why his own spokesperson says he can't disclose where she is. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of
cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's allies at this point. where is governor jan brewer. the mystery about the out of state business trip and why his own spokesperson says...
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the fiscal cliff? new reports say president obama and john boehner are going mono mono with negotiations. ayman jabbers will join us with a live report. a tea party king maker and now jim demint says he can advances conservative causes effectively outside the senate while he makes a bunch of money at a think tank. brand old party problems with michael steele. and, frack baby frack? maybe. we'll get into the great energy debate with chris hayes when he joins me, joy reid, joan walsh and ben smith, all of that when "now" starts in a mere 180 seconds. stop! stop! stop! come back here! humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back with great ideas like our optional better car replacement. if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask one of our insurance experts about it today. hello?! we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, and we do everything we can to
the fiscal cliff? new reports say president obama and john boehner are going mono mono with negotiations. ayman jabbers will join us with a live report. a tea party king maker and now jim demint says he can advances conservative causes effectively outside the senate while he makes a bunch of money at a think tank. brand old party problems with michael steele. and, frack baby frack? maybe. we'll get into the great energy debate with chris hayes when he joins me, joy reid, joan walsh and ben...
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finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that flurry of activity at chemical weapon sites. >> our concerns are an increasingly desperate assad regime might turn to chemical weapons or might lose control of them to one of the many groups that are now operating within syria. we have sent an unmistakable message that this would cross a red line and those responsible would are held to account. >> this morning in dublin a sign that the diplomacy is intensifying secretary clinton met with her counterpart, russian minister lab rov and a u.n. special envoy on the side of an international security conference she is taking part in. russia is one of syri
finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that...
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cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff or i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. >> willing to go over the cliff, i guess they are but they also don't believe republicans are going to go over the cliff. >> he can win politically but the costs, doesn't you agree, would be tremendous not only to him but to the economy and to our country. >> and we want to bring in and say good morning to congresswoman diane black, a republican from tennessee, a member of the house budget and ways and means
cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff or i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the...
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in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would, jared. >> they would not. >> jared, you have to -- >> let me make a point. the treasury secretary can decide if he or she believes a deal sl imminent not to adjust withholding tables. very important. >> i'm talking about no deal and we go off the cliff. >> we go off and stay off. >> it's $400 billion. we have a lot of things to do with regard to our debt ceiling, and my feeling is no one really believes the united states of america is going to default on its debt even if it lapses. we're dealing with different things. one is real and substantive and the other is psychological. >> i really disagree. >>
in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would,...
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. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious business or extending the lower tax rates and not the upper ones, which one would you choose? >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse, though, for the economy? >> -- the balance that you talked about, could you include the debt limit increase in the overall package? >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there are a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. and if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, then there's going to be shall price tag associated with it. >> last question. >> are you standing by your dollar for dollar for cuts? >> i tip to believe any increase in the debt limit has to be accompanied by spending reductions that meet or exceed it. >> thank you. >>> all right. listening to speaker john boehner there after his meeting with tim geithner. coming out -- didn't hear it right off the top,
. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious business or extending the lower tax rates and not the upper ones, which one would you choose? >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse, though, for the economy? >> -- the balance that you talked about, could you include the debt limit increase in the overall...
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joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan. so these plans, obviously, to the naked eye, they deliver greatly. no matter what con eggs sessions will be made on oert side, explain where you see the sensible center. >> first of all, that plan makes no sense because it forgets about and casts aside the most important focus we've got to bring to this, is what happens to middle income families. that's where the house should pass the legislation. we've already passed. give some certainty. get that part of the deal done. then we can have a debate about upper income folks. the idea that you have a bill in the house that will prote
joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan....
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remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning, do you think it was a political calculation or is a political calculation on the part of the white house? >> well, i think there are political calculations being made by everybody in washington right now, but i don't think it's a secret that the democrats believe, in a lot of cases, that they have the upper hand in the p.r. war over this issue. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the
remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the...
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. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's fiscal cliff offer. he's right. we are better off stumbling down the slope like drunken fools than the republican offer out there. here to explain that and why a huge part of the talks making major changes to medicare may be totally unnecessary is jonathan cohn and joins us now. jon, i think that's a good place to start is this. itç seems like all of the discussions about medicare, in relation to the fiscal cliff or in general seems to have an ajumpgs a assumption it's a big program and in dire need for cutting and reform but there's a basic myth at work there of the efficiency of medicare. >> yeah. medicare i
. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's...
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. >>> as the country edges closer to the fiscal cliff, both sides are digging in their heels on a major sticking point. tax rates for the wealthy. treasury secretary timothy geithner making the rounds on the sunday morning talk shows today, and once again, made it clear that white house will reject any deal that does not let the bush tax cuts expire for high earners. >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, at a time when the american economy was to be exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> joining me, former pennsylvania governor and nbc news political analyst, ed rendell and the co-chair of the campaign to fix the debt here in new york, republican strategist, susan purcell. good afternoon to both of you. governor we'll start with you, both sides seem to be standing firm over what they want out of the fiscal cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgo
. >>> as the country edges closer to the fiscal cliff, both sides are digging in their heels on a major sticking point. tax rates for the wealthy. treasury secretary timothy geithner making the rounds on the sunday morning talk shows today, and once again, made it clear that white house will reject any deal that does not let the bush tax cuts expire for high earners. >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels,...
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they're clearly neither shaken nor stirred by the fiscal cliff. joining us is congresswoman jan chakowski from illinois. >> good afternoon. >> can i thank you for remaining at work given the urgency of the situation. speaker boehner says raising tax rates on the top 2% is unacceptable without serious entitlement reform. and a few hours ago nancy pelosi wondered what exactly he had in mind. take a listen. >> what are we talking about here? what are we talking about when we say restructure entitlements? what does restructure mean? destroy, wither on the vine, voucherize, or does it mean let's work together to make these stronger? >> now, given that speaker boehner doesn't tell us anything, are you able to give us any specific examples of what democrats may be prepared to concede in terms of earned entitlements? >> well, i am not willing to say that we cut benefits at all because we can, in fact, make medicare more cost-effective and bring down health care costs without cutting benefits. we did that, and the republicans hit us over the head with it.
they're clearly neither shaken nor stirred by the fiscal cliff. joining us is congresswoman jan chakowski from illinois. >> good afternoon. >> can i thank you for remaining at work given the urgency of the situation. speaker boehner says raising tax rates on the top 2% is unacceptable without serious entitlement reform. and a few hours ago nancy pelosi wondered what exactly he had in mind. take a listen. >> what are we talking about here? what are we talking about when we say...
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cliff policies and they made a projection that while 2013, if all of the fiscal cliff things and all is enacted in congress and you do nothing to stop the tax rate increases for everybody, 2013 will be bad but by 2018 and 2020 we will be a better did debt to gdp ratio than we've had in decades, that we will be running budget surpluses and we'll be full deployment. do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's something you can't right now project as an economist? >> no one wants to go over the fiscal cliff. worse would be for the president to sign a bad bill. >> all right. alan krueger, chairman of the president's counscil on economi advisers. mr. krueger, ni
cliff policies and they made a projection that while 2013, if all of the fiscal cliff things and all is enacted in congress and you do nothing to stop the tax rate increases for everybody, 2013 will be bad but by 2018 and 2020 we will be a better did debt to gdp ratio than we've had in decades, that we will be running budget surpluses and we'll be full deployment. do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to...
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with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time. >> professor peterson, grover norquist appears to think the president regards himself as a monarch preparing for coronation. take a listen to what he told my colleague, alex wagner, earlier today. >> and he thinks somebody made him king and he's going to have more taxes, more spending, and more regulations. it's a real problem for him. he doesn't have the mandate he thinks he does. so i think he takes us over the cliff because he doesn't -- he's got blinders on. he doesn't see where he stands in the universe. >> the president will take us over the cliff because he doesn't understand his place in the u
with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time....